DIY Investing, Long-Term Care, and the AI Future, with Erin Talks Money
Erin Moriarity, creator of the Erin Talks Money YouTube channel, joins Boldin CEO Steve Chen to share the personal story behind her passion for financial independence — from investing at age eight alongside her Depression-era grandmother to watching her mother lose financial control through a difficult divorce.
Now reaching over 340,000 subscribers, Erin breaks down her philosophy that most people should DIY their finances well into their 50s, how to build a retirement income plan anchored by guaranteed income floors, and why she’s fiercely selective about partnerships.
The episode wraps with a candid conversation on AI — how she’s using it in her business, her content, and even to manage her own health.
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Callouts:
Get What’s Yours by Lawrence Kotlikoff
Erin Talks Money — YouTube Channel
Transcription
Steve Chen (00:09):
Hi folks, Steve Chen from Boldin Your Money Podcast. Welcome back. So today I have a guest who got into personal finance for the same reason many of us did, which is she was struggling with a financial system that wasn’t really built for her. So Erin Moriarty has a master’s in personal finance, passed her CFP back in 2016 and started her YouTube channel six years ago today. So we’re going to get into her story, how she built YouTube, other businesses she’s run, and top tips, and also AI. So with that, Erin, welcome to our show.
How Erin Moriarty Got Started in Personal Finance
Erin Moriarity (00:43):
Well, thanks for having me, Steve.
Steve Chen (00:44):
Yeah, I appreciate you making the time. We’ve been fans for a while watching you build this thing along with your whole community. And I’d love to get into why you got started with personal finance overall, and then eventually with YouTube.
First Stock Investment at 8 Years Old
Erin Moriarity (01:01):
I became very, very interested in personal finance at a young age. I started investing when I was eight years old. I bought Campbell Soup stock. That was my first one. Second one was Disney. And for the silly reason of I liked the Campbell Soup kids, they used to have collection cards, which I still have the full set to this day. And what kid doesn’t like Disney, right? But I had a grandma who was interested in finance. And I mean, going back as far as I can remember, my mom would take me to the bank and I would make my deposits and I would roll up coins and I would collect pop bottles to turn them in and get the change. And when the paper would come out, I think it was the Detroit news because I grew up in Michigan and I would scan for the stock ticker symbols and my grandma would teach me how to read them.
(01:43):
And just going back as far as I can remember, I was just very interested in numbers and money and investing. And I just found it fascinating. And I grew up in a family that it was very openly talked about, so it very much fostered that interest.
Grandma Was a Buy and Hold Investor
Steve Chen (01:58):
That’s awesome. And would you say your grandmother, it sounds like she’s a good saver. Was she an investor too? Did she
Erin Moriarity (02:05):
Invest? She was. So my grandma, I don’t know if this was common for women, but my grandma was born in 1927 and she grew up in the Depression. My grandpa too, but my grandpa probably never wrote a check in his entire life. My grandma handled all the money. She was a great saver. They were people from the Depression. And what she would do is save up money in five and $10,000 increments, which was a lot back in the day. And then she would invest these lump sums. And when each of the grandkids came along, she would invest a small lump sum for each of them. But I mean, she was investing probably since the 1950s. And they grew up in very working class. My grandma was a seamstress. My grandpa was a minor. She was an engineer for the mine up in the UP of Northern Michigan.
(02:58):
But yeah, she was investing all her life and she taught my mom to be a saver. My mom is not naturally an investor. She’s more of a saver and she’s very, very cautious, but she taught me to be an investor at a young age.
Steve Chen (03:11):
That’s awesome. And was your grandmother like a buy and hold investor? Some people, they get these stock certificates from like whenever, 50 years ago.
Erin Moriarity (03:20):
Yeah. She was into mutual funds. I remember she had, in normal houses, I guess you would have like the kitchen and then you would also have a dining room. And I just remember that the dining room was just always full of grandma’s papers. And grandma’s papers were like from the brokerage houses and like her stock certificates. And we would just leaf through these. And whenever it was time for the grandkids to eat, we had to like shift off all of her papers and put them on the floor. But the dining table was always full of her investment papers. And that was her favorite thing to go through them.
Steve Chen (03:55):
That’s awesome. And I guess then your mother, then she became an investor too since she was …
Mom Had Good Saving Habits Too
Erin Moriarity (04:01):
My mom is a saver. She does invest. It doesn’t come naturally to her. She’s very, very, very risk averse. And I use the example of, I was trying to get my mom out of just a savings account at a big bank. So I mean, she was making less than 1%. I mean, a fraction of 1% of interest on this money. And it was a large chunk. And I was like, let me just put you in a money market fund. Let me put you in a CD. You’ll be safe. I won’t invest it, but let me get you market interest, get 4% or something like that. And the day I convinced her, and it took like six, seven, eight months for me to convince her to move it. The day I moved it, she cried. It was so emotional for her to move this money. So it helps me understand how people have different risk tolerance and different risk capacity.
Mom and Grandma Had Different Risk Profiles
(04:52):
So my mom is very risk averse.
Steve Chen (04:55):
It’s so interesting that your grandmother had such a big risk appetite. I mean, when people are born and how they grow up informs 12 generations. And many people that grew up with the Great Depression, they were incredible savers, didn’t necessarily invest because they saw the downside. And I know that some of the millennials, they’ve gone through like 2008 and there’s some of the echoes of that, like not being much more risk averse and it has hurt whole swaths of people.
Erin Moriarity (05:25):
There’s studies to show that the kind of market you enter into when you start your career kind of leaves this little imprint on you for the rest of your life. And I find that interesting too.
Financial Values Are Instilled Early
Steve Chen (05:35):
Yeah, 100%. So one thing you shared was that, I mean, I think in the preamble we were talking about how people use money as a way to exercise control over their lives and for the good and the bad. And I think it feels like some of that has been present in your life in terms of how people view money across generations, your grandmother, your mother, and now you. And I don’t know if you’re open to sharing some of that stuff, but I think it’s pretty interesting for people to hear.
Erin Moriarity (06:01):
Yeah. I always say that I had probably the most comprehensive introduction into money when I was younger. A lot on my channel, I’ve talked about the getting into investing when I was eight years old. And that’s the really easy side of the story, right? That’s the happy side. I also grew up in a family where my dad was very, very controlling with money. He was a dentist and my mom worked for him. Ultimately, they got divorced and when that happened, my dad fired her. He stopped paying child support. My mom was raising two kids on her own. She ran out of money. I would go with her to get workman’s comp. This was when you actually had to show up in person and she would talk about how embarrassing it was. She had some savings bonds and I remember watching those completely run out and we got to the last one.
(06:50):
I remember I was probably maybe seven years old at the time and she picked the last bond out of the savings box and I looked at her, I’m like, “What do we do now? How do we get groceries?” And she’s like, “We’ll figure it out.” Ultimately, my mom went back to work for my dad, but there were very, very strict conditions. She could only work at night and she couldn’t be seen by other people. Even when I was young, I had an allowance from my dad and being slightly controlling, slightly is probably the wrong word to put in there. He took my allowance away because he said that I was a little bit too heavy and I could have it back when I got to the right weight. I was probably nine years old when this happened. So I mean, I saw my dad be very, very, very controlling over my mom, over myself, over my brother.
(07:40):
And it very much left this impression that I don’t want someone else to control my financial life. So that’s why I had such a drive for financial independence starting at a single digit age, starting at eight or nine, because I was like, “I don’t ever want someone to look at me and say, I can take this away from you and you have to come back and beg me for it.”
The Impact of Divorce
Steve Chen (08:02):
Some of that echoes in my life too, where my parents got divorced and same thing where divorce is very tough on families, but it’s very especially tough on women and then become single moms and these families. And yeah, I think it does build in for many people the strong sense of like, I want to control my situation and the money’s a great way to exercise control, but hopefully for the good versus
Erin Moriarity (08:30):
Bad. You can use it for good or for evil. So it’s how you choose to wield the power.
Steve Chen (08:36):
Yeah. Well, now hopefully it’s for the good. You’re like bringing this message to hundreds of.
Erin Moriarity (08:41):
Yes. But I still, the undertone of my message is like, I want everyone to have control of their money.
From Early Investor to a Masters in Finance and Candidate for CFP® Professional
Steve Chen (08:47):
Awesome. Can you really quickly just share your story about, you passed your CFP back in 2016, but I don’t think you’ve never acted as a financial advisor, that’s correct? Yeah. I’m curious why that is.
Erin Moriarity (09:00):
So finance has always been my passion. I went to school for finance. I got my master’s in finance. I love personal finance and it was always my intent to work with people and their money. But along the way, while I was in school getting my master’s, I started a business and lo and behold, the business became successful. And I was very fortunate and I had employees and I was making a good income. And so by the time I passed my CFP exam, I didn’t want to walk away from that business. And the stipulation, if you want to use your CFP letters or you have to do a set number of thousands of hours of work study under a CFP. And so for me, going to work for a CFP would have been a drastic pay cut that I wasn’t willing to do. So I did the coursework, I passed the exam and then I’m like, “You know what?
(09:54):
I’m not walking away from this business.” And I later sold that business, but I never went to work for a CFP, so I couldn’t use my letters. And then recently, actually only this year I was talking with another CFP who was a journalist and she had never acted in the capacity of a financial advisor. And she was telling me that they changed the rules in 2018. And as long as you had sufficient research hours, those could count as your work study hours. And I’m like, “Okay, well, this changes everything.” So now in 2026, I am working on everything I can to eventually by the end of the year be able to use my letters.
Steve Chen (10:31):
That’s awesome. Does your YouTube work count as research?
Erin Moriarity (10:34):
We’re going to find out. I mean, if it doesn’t, I have a way to get there.
Steve Chen (10:41):
That’s awesome.
Erin Moriarity (10:41):
Yeah.
Steve Chen (10:42):
And are you still running the other … I remember you were sharing a little bit more about this other business. Are you still doing that or you sold that in your … I
Erin Moriarity (10:49):
Sold that business. That was one that I had about 10 years ago and it was in the health and wellness field. So that one’s since been sold. I do have another business right now. About seven years ago, I started a third party claims processing company in the dental field, and I still have that one. And I have a team and they’re wonderful. I, within the past two years, have largely stepped away from the day-to-day operations of that. And I have a management team in place and I show up for weekly meetings or when things are necessary. But I also think by the end of the year, I will sell that business because YouTube is full-time for me now, if I’m being honest. It’s just impossible to juggle making five, six videos a week and also work another job.
Steve Chen (11:40):
It’s interesting meeting folks like yourself that … Sometimes there’s REAs like our CFP is like, Kevin Lum, he’s got a practice, and then he goes out and he goes on YouTube and it’s trying to balance both. And I think for many folks, they realize there’s just so much more scale available through YouTube. And so they … I mean, he’s still running both, but some people just kind of get away from it and they’re just like, look, I think it can bring more value to more people through this medium. So yeah, would love to dive in, use that as a segue to kind of talk about kind of YouTube and what are some of the things … And first thing I want to say is you were sharing, this is your sixth year anniversary, right? And everyone sees folks like yourself and they’re like, oh, that just happened magically.
(12:22):
And it’s like, no, there’s a grind.
Building a YouTube Channel Around Retirement Planning
Erin Moriarity (12:25):
Yeah. I always say it took me a year and a half to get monetized. And to get monetized on YouTube, you need a thousand subscribers and 4,000 hours of watch time. That took me well over a year and a half to do it. And in that process, I quit twice and I was only talked back into it by my brother and husband. It was not easy. I actually have a heartwarming story because in the beginning when I would release a video, it was just me watching it or my brother. My brother and my husband at the time were the only ones who knew I started a channel. I didn’t tell anyone else in my life because I was like, “Oh, I don’t want people to see me and judge me.” And my brother is a medical doctor and he works in a hospital and he recently told me, this was probably a year and a half ago, that he said when my channel first started that he would go to the hospital and every computer he would walk past, he would open up YouTube and he would start one of my videos so that I’d get a view because in the beginning it was literally like I would get three views.
(13:21):
And so yeah, I was maybe two of the three views myself, but the fact that he did that, that was wonderful to me.
Steve Chen (13:30):
That’s awesome. Well, yeah, I would love to learn why you just decided to start it, because it is a huge risk to kind of go out and be like, “Okay, fine. I’m going to put myself out there and start talking about personal finance.” Well,
A Passion for Financial Planning
Erin Moriarity (13:42):
Like I said, I was always a passion. I got the degree in it. I had the education for it and then I wasn’t using my degree. And because I wasn’t using it didn’t mean I lost the passion for it. I was just working another job and I’m a little bit of a workaholic that is probably … I don’t want to feign people go into an interview and like, “What’s your biggest flaw? Oh, I work too hard.” No, to the detriment. There are sometimes I’ve worked multiple jobs and I’m like, “Oh my God, I’m not sleeping. This is not healthy.” So I’m getting better at that, but I just felt like this was an area of my life that I was continually reading on. I was continually researching and I was like, “Well, if this is something that I’m still so passionate about, why don’t I find a way to use my education and explore my passion?” And I really thought YouTube would be a great medium for that.
(14:33):
And I always thought when I started that my audience would look like me, but maybe five years younger. So I thought I would be talking to women who were just starting out and wanting them to get invested. And lo and behold, as your career evolves, I think a lot of times your market will speak to you rather than you thinking you know the way. And turns out I love retirement far more than I do the accumulation phase because I find that to be the more interesting puzzle, like how to actually spend this money you’ve worked your entire life for. So I turned out my audience was largely 55 plus. And so you just kind of go with where business takes you, but it allows me to very much explore something I’m very passionate about.
Steve Chen (15:19):
Yeah, that resonates. A lot of our audiences is 50 plus kind of 401k millionaire. They’ve worked and saved their whole lives. They’ve made good decisions. And there’s a lot of them out there and clearly you’ve got a few hundred thousand people signed up for you, right? There’s a deep demand for people to get educated and learn. And I’ve talked to one of my neighbors, he’s like, “I’ve done my 10,000 hours. I’m watching YouTube videos about retirement.” I’m like,
Erin Moriarity (15:44):
“Okay.” You’re a Malcolm Gladwell expert.
Surprising Learnings from the YouTube Community
Steve Chen (15:48):
Exactly. What are some of the surprising things you’ve learned in this process of building this community?
Erin Moriarity (15:55):
My community is incredible. My community is incredible. DIYers, they are very well researched themselves. They are very informed. They impress me every single day. And I think having an audience who is so well versed in finance is constantly pushing me to do deeper and deeper research and continually educate myself in the field. So I think what I would say is just that your education’s not done and I’m constantly being challenged. And I love that. I love that you just don’t get to rest in like, “Oh, okay, well, let’s just make another video on something that’s already out there.” They’re constantly asking me to push the boundaries a little bit.
Steve Chen (16:39):
Yeah. We see the same thing with our community. That’s awesome. And how do you interact with them? Is it, I mean, obviously comments, but are there other ways that they can engage with you?
Erin Moriarity (16:47):
Largely comments. I do not exist in social media. That’s actually something very important to put out there. I’m not on WhatsApp. I’m not on Telegram. I’m not on Facebook. I’m not on TikTok. I’m not on any of these things. I do YouTube and I love YouTube. I respond to as many comments as I can. I read them all, but sometimes it’s grown to a size that we might get over a million comments a month on the channel and it gets to the book and I can’t respond to all of them, but I’m so grateful for the feedback. But I also, I want to live my life outside of social media. Social media is something I do for a job, but I’m not going to put my life on social media. I’m actually a pretty private person. So I do YouTube. And then if you want to leave a comment, if you want to email me, you can.
(17:32):
I’m always happy to reply. But outside of that, maybe we’ll do lives because that way we could get real interaction real time, but I’m going to do YouTube and that’s it. I call it a day at that.
Steve Chen (17:42):
Yeah. I know Rob Berger does lives and it’s pretty interesting. I’ve gone to some of his things. That definitely brings it to life. He’ll be sitting there talking about stuff and they’ll be like, “All right, let’s do some chess.” He played chess and he’s like, they’re deconstructing chess games after the fact questions in. Yeah, that’s super cool. I will agree that you are not on social media. It was very hard to figure out how to contact you.
Erin Moriarity (18:04):
Some people have been creative. I’ve had some people track me down, that’s for sure. So maybe I got to scrub it a little bit better so people can’t find me, but I don’t want to be on social media. I want to go live my life.
Life Online Has Downsides
Steve Chen (18:14):
Totally. I think it’s way better. By the way, that’s a whole other thing about also with kids and stuff like that. Now they’re finally coming out and saying like, “Hey, all this social media stuff has been a giant experience.” It’s going to be like cigarettes, I think.
Erin Moriarity (18:25):
Yes,
Steve Chen (18:26):
I agree with that. Hey, you know what? This was terrible to give children access to social media and a generation of kids has grown up with them, including my kids. And I can see the difference. My oldest son who had way less, I think has a way healthier relationship with the world and then the other kids, it definitely varies. But anyway. I
Erin Moriarity (18:44):
Mean, well, this is a segue into not finance, but if I go out to dinner and I look at a table over and someone is on their phone and ignoring the person they’re with, I’m just like, “What are you doing?” This is the moment. This is what we’re all living for, to have this human connection, put your phone down. So my biggest thing, I always want people to put their phone down. So yes, you will not find me on my phone. Saturdays are no phone days in my house. I plug my phone in a different room. I’m with my kid. No, I’m not on social media.
Steve Chen (19:16):
Super healthy. More young people are going … I was reading about this, I guess there’s like whole TikTok and Reddit things about dumb phones or whatever flip phones that don’t do anything and people are living their lives that way, so way better. So a little bit more on your community. And I would love if you could share some of the top topics that people dive into or chop challenges they have and kind of how you provide guidance just to your audience in this area for these retirement oriented folks.
Social Security, Withdrawal Strategies, and Retirement Income
Erin Moriarity (19:49):
Well, I would say personally for me, one of my biggest passions is social security, which is like a weird passion for somebody who’s 38, but I just truly love it. I became interested in it actually when my dad ran across a book from Lawrence Kotlikoff and it was called Get What’s Yours and he brought it to my mom’s house one day and he was trying to help her maximize her social security benefits. And I was like, “Well, this seems like an interesting read.” And I read it and I’m like, “Oh, this system is fascinating.” And also, a lot of people don’t seem to know a lot about it. And so years and years later, I made my first YouTube video about that. But again, I would say when I started the channel, I wasn’t doing social security because I wasn’t thinking that that’s what people were looking for.
(20:40):
And as my audience evolved, so I got to go into a topic that I’m incredibly passionate about. But I would say also something I really love is just withdrawal strategies because I find it very fascinating from a psychological standpoint that we spend 30, 40 years accumulating wealth and then people enter into retirement and they’re so afraid to spend it. They’re so afraid that what they’ve worked these three or four decades for is ultimately going to run out and it would run out at the worst possible time when you’re 80 or 90 and you can’t go back to work at that point. You don’t want to be just living on social security. So I think to me, what’s most interesting for my audience and for me is to maybe nudge people to spend what they’ve worked so hard for safely.
Is Social Security in Trouble?
Steve Chen (21:25):
Right, right. Yeah. We actually had Mark Miller on the podcast last time and we talked about social security and Medicare and social security is due to the trust funds due to run out in 2032. But he gave kind of a great framing, which is like, well, one, probably not going to happen. I mean, it might go to the last minute, but we did in the 1980s.
Erin Moriarity (21:47):
Yeah, 1983, it went until we were about eight weeks out or 16 weeks out from payments being affected. I think they’ll wait till last minute, but they’ll do something. It’s not going to run dry.
Steve Chen (21:58):
Yeah, they’ll do something. But either way, it’s not like we’re out of money. It’s like there’s receipts coming in, taxes are coming in and it’ll be enough to pay 75, 80%. But I personally don’t think social security is going anywhere. I think it might go the other way. We’ll talk a little bit, but hopefully in an abundant future where there’s markets do well, there’s more income and wealth out there and hopefully people have long lives and plenty of income, but we’ll see. Yeah. Super cool. So around social security and lifetime income, have you read Die With Zero?
Mixed Feelings Around Die with Zero
Erin Moriarity (22:30):
I have, yes. I have so many mixed feelings about that book. I love it. On the one hand, this idea that you should spend everything you’ve worked so hard for. I’m fully on board with that message, but I can’t take the book literally because when you read the literal words, he will tell you to take out debt in your 20s to kind of finance your lifestyle a little bit. And I’m maybe like 40% Dave Ramsey.
Say No to Debt
I don’t want debt. I don’t want to owe anybody anything. I love the freedom of just being financially independent, which to me is not using debt. I mean, I think there are smart ways to use it. You want to buy a home. If you need to buy a car and maybe it’s your first or second car and you don’t have that money set aside in cash and you need to get to work, of course there’s wise ways to use it.
(23:22):
If you’re starting a business and you’re leveraging it, of course there are smart ways to use debt, but I’m not ever going to say take out debt to finance a trip to Europe in your 20s. It doesn’t work with the fiber of my being.
Steve Chen (23:37):
Totally understand that. Yeah. And obviously so many people have gotten in trouble with debt. I think that’s an example of like the financial system isn’t really aligned with people. Lots of people took student loans, credit card debt. I mean, it’s been a recurring problem and then people sort of figure it out. But yeah, you definitely want to, you want to be in control of your life, be saving and investing, living within your means. Yes. How about like, so in terms of lifetime income, do you talk about sequence of returns and, I don’t know, bridging with annuity? I’m not saying this is a good idea, but different ways to construct income.
Many Paths to Retirement Income
Erin Moriarity (24:19):
Yeah. I mean, there’s really only a handful of ways to fund a retirement, right? If you have a pension, great. If you want to make your own pension with an annuity because that brings you a sense of security, great. So those, you’re generating your income floors, timing when you claim social security, whether you want to glide into retirement with part-time work, how you want to draw from your portfolio, do you want more of a bucketing approach so you have this cash buffer set aside that’s really insulated from market volatility? Or are you okay with having a more balanced portfolio that is more exposed to volatility and having a lesser withdrawal rate on the total portfolio? I don’t really think there’s a wrong way to approach retirement. I think it’s about aligning it with your risk tolerance, with your perspective, because some people want an annuity, a pension.
(25:08):
I mean, we probably all want a pension, but I don’t work in a field that gives one of those, but we all want robust income floors. We all want some kind of emergency fund that we could turn into. And likely we want a safe withdrawal rate on investments, but how we create that mix is really how we make our own retirement work. And I don’t think there’s a right or wrong way. I think there’s a right way for you as an individual.
Steve Chen (25:30):
Yeah. I think it’s such an interesting topic too, because accumulation’s pretty straightforward, right? Save, invest, don’t shoot yourself in the foot, manage bad debt.
Erin Moriarity (25:40):
Don’t sell it, just stay. Stay the course for 30, 40 years, put your head down. You’re going to be fine.
Steve Chen (25:44):
Yeah, exactly. And I think it’d be even quicker. It depends on the market. Obviously we had a great run the past, whatever, 10, 15 years. But the whole sequencing and building a retirement paycheck, it’s kind of like everyone’s on their own trying to figure out how to do this. Do you have kind of general best practices that you share with people?
Turning Your Portfolio into an Income Stream
Erin Moriarity (26:02):
Again, I really think it comes down to personal preference. Like I said, I don’t really think there’s a wrong way to turn your portfolio into an income stream. What I personally like for me, which is not going to be for everyone, I like the idea of going into retirement with minimal debt. So debt free would be my personal choice. Home paid off card, paid off, no credit card debt, no outstanding debt. So my expenses are as low as essential. Then I like the idea of keeping my income floor as high as possible. So whether that’s delaying when I claim social security, whether that might be entertaining the idea of an annuity, I don’t know, I’m 38. Ask me when I’m 65 what my feelings are at that time, subject to change. If you have a pension, great. So I like the idea of having as many of your essential expenses covered by guaranteed income streams.
Guaranteed Income Sources
(26:54):
Erin’s Community Creates Retirement Income in a Variety of Ways
Steve Chen (27:34):
And how about your community? What do you see them doing?
Erin Moriarity (27:38):
It’s a mix. Rarely I see people mention annuity. We’re still in the generation where there’s still quite a few pensions. I would say I seem to have a good military following. So I hear a lot about military pensions. I don’t know. A lot of them seem to delay social security, so they seem to have robust … My community is very financially literate. My community is very good with their finances. So this is not the people who are paycheck to paycheck. 100%.
Steve Chen (28:07):
It’s
Erin Moriarity (28:08):
More they’re deciding how much can I give to my kids or should I wait one more year to claim social security? I went to coffee with a friend recently actually. She just retired and she retired from a job where she has a pension. She shared with me her retirement income is six figures and she was trying to decide when she wanted to claim social security. And she asked me if I would give her advice. I’m like, “Of course I will. Let’s go to coffee.” So a day comes that we’re going for coffee and she’s like, “Listen, Erin, I’m sorry, I’m wasting your time. I’ve already figured out it doesn’t matter. I’ve got enough money regardless of when I claim, but I just wanted to have coffee with you.” I’m like, “Great. I’m happy for the company and new friendship.”
Erin’s Views on DIY Planning
Steve Chen (28:48):
Yeah, that’s awesome. You’ve mentioned that you think most people should be largely DIY pretty deep into their life and would love to get your point of view on that.
Erin Moriarity (28:59):
Yeah. I think one, it serves you very well to have a good financial baseline knowledge. And the only way you generate that knowledge is by being involved in your finances, by starting out with budgeting, by starting out with investing, learning what all of these things are and what these different accounts are. When you’ve got 100, 200, 300, $400,000, you don’t need a financial advisor. You don’t need someone telling you how to create the optimal portfolio. What you need is to just put money away. And especially when life is pretty simple, when you have one job, life is just easier. There’s not that much complexity. I think when people get later in life, when maybe there’s multiple marriages, there are stepchildren, there’s multiple properties, potentially a business, large tax situations, you’ve got the huge traditional balances, maybe you’re trying to manage Roth conversions. I think there’s an argument for turning to a CFP.
(29:58):
I just don’t think it’s the starting course They’re the vast majority of people and you don’t want to just hand everything over to a CFP. You want to be actively involved in that. And I would also say my perspective has kind of changed watching my dad go through vascular dementia. So he was married. It was a second marriage. And ultimately that marriage ended because his wife did not want to take care of him as his memory was declining. So watching the financial mistakes that happened and I wasn’t able to stop because I didn’t have any say in that and he still had full control over his money. If he had been working with a CFP, there would have been a lot less blow back. So I think there comes a point where it’s more beneficial to have someone in your corner maybe in your later life years because you never know when cognition might take a hit.
(30:58):
And it’s bad when it comes to money because my dad got involved in a Ponzi scheme. He converted a significant portion of his assets to gold. He bought an annuity without understanding the ramifications. His wife retitled accounts in her name. I mean, it ultimately, it became a very, very messy situation.
Steve Chen (31:18):
Yeah. Unfortunately, it’s super real, right? Where we’ve got this demographic shift, right? There’s 12,000 people a day turning 65, we’re living longer. Dementia, Alzheimer’s, these things are real and a progressive disease is not always obvious.
Erin Moriarity (31:33):
Yes.
Steve Chen (31:34):
It very often actually shows up in the money.
Erin Moriarity (31:36):
Yes. I would say money is kind of the first place it shows up. And so if you already have someone in your corner, I would kind of say it’s kind of a preemptive thing. And so maybe in your 70s, most people should have someone in their corner just because you don’t know what’s going to happen. And I never want anyone to get dementia or Alzheimer’s or anything, but you don’t know when something happens that could make it so you couldn’t take care of your own finances. And if you don’t have a spouse or a child or someone you trust to take over, it might be more important to have someone in your corner at that time.
Steve Chen (32:09):
Or even if you do. I mean, it’s tough. I started this business because of my mom’s situation. She needed help and needed guidance and ideally a CFP, but just didn’t have enough money to essentially get one. Or she wasn’t a good customer for them. So we did it on spreadsheets and then we built the software. And as she’s been aging, it’s like, okay, we’re thinking about caregiving and all this stuff and power of attorney and all that. And we have, my brother and I have a very aligned relationship and view on how we’re doing things that does not exist in every family. You can have people with wildly different means and different orientations about what’s reasonable and what’s not. And yeah, I think the biggest source of financial fraud is actually in families. Yeah.
Erin Moriarity (33:02):
I can see it.
Steve Chen (33:02):
Or financial abuse, right? Yes. So it’s good for folks to … I think really it’s another factor. It’s like people didn’t really have to think about these problems 30 years ago or whatever. It’s like you had social security and then you kicked off.
Erin Moriarity (33:17):
Yeah,
Steve Chen (33:17):
You were fine.
(33:18):
Or you didn’t live this long, right? We were living to 100 and it’s like, and all kinds of things happen in that journey to living that long. What are some of the … I know you’ve been really selective about who you partner with and I know you have a recent chapter, but I would love to kind of dive more into why, and I think it goes to this, right? These challenges that people face as they age, like how you’re thinking about how you want to help your audience, right? Who is in this kind of retirement, but facing long life expectancy, some of the challenges you think they’re going to face and how you see helping them over time.
Erin Moriarity (33:53):
Well, I’ve been selective because the reason I got into finance was I wanted to help people like my grandma. I wanted to help people like my mom. And these are people who’ve worked their entire life and saved their entire life. And I don’t take it lightly that someone might trust what I have to say and I want to serve them well. And I’m very much of like the handshake kind of philosophy. If you put your trust in me, I’m here for you. And so I don’t want to be a person who’s taking on partnerships with companies I don’t understand because it’s my entire reputation. And if I’m putting my name on something, I want it to be something I believe in. So it’s easier to just put my name on my own product. But ultimately, I want to serve as a source of education for people.
(34:43):
I’m making videos that I’m very fortunate that they get thousands of views and sometimes tens of thousands of views or hundreds of thousands of views. And that’s a really blessed position to be in, but it also comes with the limiting factor that I can’t offer individual advice on that level. So what I hope to do with this content is just kind of plant the seed that then somebody can then say, how does this apply to my situation? Does it apply to my situation? Does it help me think differently about my situation? So ultimately, I just want to be a resource or an education, but I’m never going to tell any individual person how to do their retirement because I’m making videos that are released in mass format. I can’t look at Fred’s account and say, “Here’s how you should retire, Fred, because I’m just doing one case study in a video.”
Steve Chen (35:35):
Yeah. When you think about your future in media, you’re focusing much more on YouTube. Do you model it on folks like Dave Ramsey or other folks or Ramat Seti or things? Where do you think it could be in three to five years? I mean, it’s come obviously a huge way in the last six years.
Erin Moriarity (35:53):
Yeah, it come further than I ever imagined it would. Every once in a while, I’ll have a video that does really well and I’ll have more views or more subscribers in a day that it took me. And I always think back to that original year and a half of what it took to really … I feel like I made it in YouTube and I felt like I made it. That first day I got monetized, I got 32 cents and that was big. I mean, ultimately I want to be able to continue to put out videos that I hope people see value in. It’s funny because I kind of go back and forth. Sometimes I would say that my goal was to build a channel that was larger. We’re a little bit over 340,000 subscribers now, which again, a very blessed situation to be in. But I’ve noticed that as we’ve eclipsed that 300,000 mark, you start to get people that are beyond your intended scope.
(36:54):
And so you start to get a lot of feedback that doesn’t really apply to what the video is. And there aren’t these … Some people who aren’t watching it or some people who are watching the video aren’t really looking to learn about a Roth conversion or they aren’t trying to learn how capital gains are taxed or how this social security reform might look. And so, I mean, I’ve kind of grown into the mindset of I want to grow to the point that I’m able to support the audience that’s actually looking for what I’m bringing to the table. So that’s what I would say.
Steve Chen (37:27):
That makes sense. Well, that’s awesome. And congrats on everything you’ve built.
Erin Moriarity (37:30):
Thank you.
Steve Chen (37:31):
Yeah. And the last little part of this, I’d love to just dive in a little bit about AI and a couple things. So one is how it shows up in your own life, like in your other business and in YouTube, but also we can talk about where you think it might be going. But do you have any … I remember when we were kind of in our first talk, you were sharing that you’re using these tools, I think in your own business.
Erin Moriarity (37:52):
Yes, in I guess both businesses. So in my third party claims processing company, we have AI agents that we’ve built who actually post payments. And that’s been wonderful for alleviating much of the mundane tasks for some of my employees. And they’ve moved more into an oversight role, still having to check the work of the AI agents. And that’s been a time saver. I would say each employee probably has 15 hours that has been scrubbed from their work week. So that allows them to be more productive in their role. I use it in the YouTube format as well to make my videos more comprehensive. So I’ll have an idea, I research it, I write it, and then I’ll have AI kind of push back on me. I’m like, “What questions might someone have from this? Or where do you think my blind spot might be?” I kind of noticed it in some of the comments on videos because people will be like, “Oh, I was going to ask about,” and then you addressed it at the end of the video.
(38:46):
And largely I would chalk that up to AI for allowing me to be a little bit more comprehensive. So I think you can use it very much as a value add. Yeah,
Steve Chen (38:55):
It’s pretty incredible. I was just reading this morning, there’s a story about an entrepreneur who’s, it looks like he’s the first person to create a billion dollar valuation company with … It’s him. He just hired his brother and basically he had a business selling … I think he has a business selling GLP-1 drugs as a reseller. There’s hims and hers that are doing all these kinds of drugs for people, but he’s done it and he’s … When I read it, it’s just like every part of his business, like building the website, doing all the marketing, doing the customer service, ordering … It’s like he’s automated everything and he was doing 30 some six million a month or something like that revenue. It’s kind of like you’re like, it’s amazing that-
Erin Moriarity (39:39):
I would say Elon Musk predicted that we would have the first solopreneurs who are billionaires within this decade. I mean, probably, so this is probably maybe a year out from when he last said that. And I would say there’s so many tools. You can use Claude and build a website in 30 minutes and that website can be top-notch. It can look very professional. There’s a lot of things that AI can do at this point.
Steve Chen (40:02):
Do you see your peers and friends diving into it the way you are?
Erin Moriarity (40:07):
Mix. I would say I have this group that I kind of turn to for business related advice and we get together weekly, sometimes monthly, and they’re incorporating it into their lives as well, whether they’re attorneys, whether they’re small business owners. And it’s very fascinating because we’re always challenging each other like, “Which ones are you using? Have you tried this? What are you doing with this?” And so we’re constantly pushing each other. And then I have some friends who are just like, “I’m not on the AI train yet.” And I’m like, “Okay, I think it’s leaving the station whether you’re on board or not.”
Steve Chen (40:41):
Right. Is that group that you get together with, is that in person or is that remote? It’s
Erin Moriarity (40:45):
In person, yes. So it’s in my local community. And I have two different groups. I have a group of just women, business owners. So we all own our own business. And I would say this group of women, so impressive because every time we get together, we’re always talking about what are the new things we’ve done with AI and what websites have we built and what tools have we tried and what didn’t work? And then I have a group that is … It’s also business owners, but it’s men and women. Sometimes it’s fun to just get together with just the girls though.
Steve Chen (41:17):
Yeah. I’ll have to look at this. I’m curious if women are faster adopters.
Erin Moriarity (41:23):
I don’t know. I would say I’m equally impressed by the boys too. I know men who have built entire businesses on this in fields that you might not expect in the law field and AI is running a significant portion of their work and they’re constantly evolving and constantly trying to change systems and processes. And same as the women’s. I mean, I don’t want to discredit the boys.
Steve Chen (41:51):
Yeah. I think it’s pretty interesting, but I agree. It’s like you’re either doing it or you’re not. And super important for the leaders to do it. That was a huge lesson I got. There’s a guy, Luke Whales, I copied with him and he’s like, earlier this year, and he’s like, “You need to be using these tools.” I’m like, all right. And then I jumped in and had one of our engineers train me on clog code and then now I use Cowork and Chat and the whole company’s using it and I give people rewards if they like, “I’ll buy you dinner if you have a really cool use case.” I love that. People are building stuff. I
Erin Moriarity (42:25):
Think one of the best things you can do is just play with it because I think it’s through playing with these new systems that we actually learn the most. It’s not that you’re setting out, “I have to build this website or I have to make this agent.” It’s kind of like, what can this tool do if I play with it? And so sometimes it’s a Sunday and I’m just playing during my son’s nap and I come up with the craziest things.
Steve Chen (42:50):
Yeah. I’m actually looking up how people think about this. I think that most people in the US actually are anti-AI right now because they see it as threatening, but then there’s a whole bunch of people that are obviously super pro AI and what’s happening, but I’m hopeful … My perspective is I am pretty hopeful about an abundant future personally. How do you feel about that?
Erin Moriarity (43:12):
I think it has to have guardrails because I mean, I think it can be dangerous if we operate without … Let’s just use social media as the example that we just spoke about. Social media went out without guardrails, and I think now we’re starting to learn the ramifications of that. I think it’s going to be the same thing with AI. I think it’s an incredibly useful tool, but again, how useful a tool is depends on how you wield it. And I think it can be incredibly damaging too.
Steve Chen (43:41):
Yeah. No, for sure. There’s definitely massive risks. And I know Amazon was like, they were pushing adoption and then they’re having all these issues. And I think AWS chunk of it went down and they’re like, Claude, I think Claude just leaked source code.
Erin Moriarity (43:56):
What do we know as far as how is our information being handled? Is there any level of privacy that we can expect with the information that we share? I think there’s so many unknowns that we still have to have some level of caution with it, but I’m not going to be the person who’s saying don’t use it. I would say use it safely.
Steve Chen (44:16):
Yeah. I think what’s been so interesting for me is just seeing the, as it’s built context in our business, I’ll be asking about something and it knows that we’re having other conversations about adjacent things and we’ll bring that into the conversation. So it’s starting to feel like it’s this coworker that knows everything in the business. And mostly the CEO is the person that knows that, but now you’ve got something else, and it can know it at a great level of detail. So I think that’s fascinating and a little scary to see, but yeah.
Erin Moriarity (44:45):
Well, I would say this is just a personal tangent. I use it, I’m trying to use it to fix health issues. I have epilepsy and I’ve had it for 21 years because it’s the results of the removal of brain tumor and I’ve started using it to track when they happen. And we went down this road of things that doctors have never been able to figure out because we’ve tried different medicines, we’ve tried different diets, like all those things that the medical field can try. And now with AI, I’ve tested out was it related to barometric pressure changes? And right now the theory we’re testing is, is it related to a buildup of sleep debt? And I think we’re into something promising because I’m six and a half weeks out from my last seizure and usually I only go four to five weeks. So I mean, ChatGPT really might be the thing that helps me to make advances in my personal health.
(45:46):
And it’s helped me find the supplements that work. It keeps track of like how bad the seizures were, how long they lasted, like all of the things I did in that day, sleep wise, eat wise, all of those things. And I think if you know how to use this tool to your advantage, it’s very impressive.
Steve Chen (46:03):
Yeah. No, it’s incredible. I do think this idea of surfacing insights to people and companies internally, we wrote this churn detector tool. We’re like looking at all our data, why do people churn out that we know we’re subscription based business. And we saw these patterns about usage that led us to really pinpoint why does someone churn? Why does someone upgrade? And then you can really focus your energy on fixing those problems. But we couldn’t, we had always been, for years, we’ve been talking about like this magical future of like, can I just ask a question and get the answer? And now we’re like, got all the data in one place about behavior and what’s happening. And then you can just kind of like, “Hey, Claude, tell me the patterns that you’re seeing here.”
Erin Moriarity (46:44):
And that’s what AI is good at, recognizing patterns and things that we might overlook because maybe there’s too much data for us to process.
Steve Chen (46:52):
Yeah. So on this note, do you have a point of view about how this shows up in financial literacy, planning and advice?
Erin Moriarity (47:02):
I think AI is great at financial education. So if you’re trying to learn about finances, great, great tool. I think we still have a great need for human element in there because a lot of what humans struggle with when it comes to finances are the emotions they attach to money. A lot of people know they should invest in a certain way or have a certain portfolio or they should draw from a portfolio in a certain way, but intellectually knowing it and then having an emotional barrier because of maybe a script you had growing up, maybe a trauma you went through, I think people need the human touch because that relates to the emotion of it. So I think what we’re going to see going forward is we’ll probably see more of a hybrid approach of incorporating AI, robo-advisors, real life advisors, things like that. But from an education standpoint, AI is top-notch.
Steve Chen (47:59):
Yeah, 100% agree. I think this is going to be this blended thing. And I also think that you have a spectrum of ways to get educated by YouTube, classes, content, and then you’ll have software, AI, you’ll have coaches, advisors, and also I think you’ll have different business models, right? So not just asset center management, but flat fee or episodic, whatever it is. Yeah.
Erin Moriarity (48:24):
Well,
Steve Chen (48:24):
Look, Erin, really appreciate it. It’s been a great conversation. Thanks for all the good work you’re doing. And we’ll definitely point to Aaron Talks Money, your YouTube channel, the chapter stuff that you’re doing and any of the resources that you think we should call out and we will add in there. And so for folks that are listening, thanks for your time and all feedback is welcome. I know that Aaron and I, we appreciate all reviews. I imagine Erin does
Erin Moriarity (48:47):
As well. We read the comments. We love it. Feedback helps us grow.
Steve Chen (48:51):
Yeah. All right. Well, that’s awesome. Well, so with that, again, Erin, thanks very much for joining us.
Erin Moriarity (48:55):
Thank you so much.
